Is this the love of Christ?

During "Jesus Rifles" discussion
"Spiritually as believers, we should use every option possible to get the gospel out. Christians are in Iraq, they should try to lead them to the Lord, but if they don't get a chance to, and they are told to fight with them, they should send them to Hell for ever to be with Allah and Mohammad. If you want to be Biblical about it, the Jews are suppose to be in their land and most of Iraq and Iran is their land! American soldiers are only doing the same thing God wanted the Jews to do in the O.T. It is God's will being fulfilled by the US soldiers, God has used Gentiles before to fulfill his will."

Mosque near ground zero controversy
"Build your Mosque in your own country, get out of our's."


"Ban ALL Muslim immigration. For those that are here, the 1st time anyone of thier family commits a crime, all of the family should be deported. Those that do not assimalate or use public assistance should also be given a one way ticket to what ever chess pool they came from. Of course that is wishfull thinking, things like the Consitution get in the way.......and they know that. Yea you youngins need to learn Arab"


"I do not speak to muslims unless they want to ask me a about something. I do not want to get involved with animals who would take my life for telling the truth. I say let the stupid be stupid and remain delussional. God makes them ev...en more delussional because they insist on being ignorant. Sure, we should share The Gospel with others, but I have come to find that in these days and the last 20 years since I have been saved, that people generally don't care about going to hell and will even act offended when you tell them how to escape it. My family and I are saved. Those are the only people I need to worry and care about. In fact, there is a creepy jihadi who lives directly below me. I am not going near that demon unless if God sends him to me for the truth and to get saved. Though, I have had thoughts of placing delicious bacon at the foot of his door."



"Can you tell me what the Muslims have done to Humanity, you seem to not to ever mention about this religion of peace. It is thier Religion to practice as they please-but not here in this country. They remind me dope pedlers & pimps in the corners waiting for my child to pass by."

"Israel is strong enough to defend herself. She will be cornered again by the Muslims for the final blow. Israel will have no choice but to Nuke every Muslim country & I rejoice."

Comment on a post about a facebook group calling for beating muslim women drivers
 "it's the law of bestiality, where the Qu'ran is not a real book, but almost like the diary of some crazy bastard who add as he goes,things that he like to do against others, to endure pain, suffering and most dead... I am against this barbaric people and to all the extend of the word, and I support any woman who stand against it, even at the risk of her own life,"


In a facebook thread about muslims allegedly asking to have a muslim only plot in a graveyard. 
(original status update:  "At one of the Graveyards here in Amarillo, the officials in charge were asked by a group of Muslims, that they demanded a section just for Muslims. The officials told the Muzzies NO.")


 A, "shudda told em for christains only*"


B, "the christian graveyard would be decapitated heads and nothing else. We just need to NUKE THE SONSABITCHES."

So much of the above is so completely incoherent and honestly didn't even seem to fit the subject that was being discussed... I have seen so much of this kind of vitriol, and from professing Christians that it makes me ashamed to count myself as one of their brethren. I am angry that they drag the name of my Saviour through the mud with this kind of talk. I am disgusted that they have the gall to proclaim themselves followers of Christ. I pity them when they meet Him. Do they honestly believe that he would condone or approve of the hatred they propagate with that awful sentiment? Can they imagine that the Father looks down with happiness on that? Really?! 

What gets me is the utter hypocrisy! All the time railing about how the Muslims are always saying they want to kill the infidels, and in the same breath cursing the Muslims with their "Christian" mouths (and fingers).

Christian, those are souls -eternal souls- that you are rashly condemning without thought of what you are saying. Do you have any feeling? Any compassion? Did Christ only die for you? 

Christ died for all men. ALL. Not some. Not a few. ALL! When he was on that cross suffering pain and humiliation, he did it for every living soul that ever had, or ever would live upon the earth. All of them. Every last one. Those men who beat him. The men who spat upon him. The men who nailed his hands and feet. He felt no animosity toward those who fulfilled the prophecy, he loved them, he died for them. And he loves those 'evil Muslims' too. "Do good to all men...", get that? ALL men. 

So, from now on I will separate myself from people who talk like that. If you post hatred like that on facebook, or twitter, or wherever, if I hear it come out of your mouth, and you presume to call yourself a Christian, I will not associate with you. I will not. 


And here is my daughter's take on it, Heart Sore.

How soon we forget.

Not long ago Joe Lieberman introduced the Terrorist Expatriation Act (S 3327)in Congress. The idea that a citizen of the United States could be stripped of their rights is very disturbing. Of course most of the things that would cause the loss of citizenship are understandable (i.e. swearing allegiance to or getting citizenship in an enemy state). There was one point that was still very disturbing. I did already blog about that bill here.


What seems to have gone unnoticed is John McCain's bill. The Enemy Belligerent Interrogation Detention and Prosecution Act (S 3081).


What really disturbs me is that many people seem to think this is a good idea! That taking away the rights of American citizens because they are suspected of terrorism could ever be thought a good idea is just appalling!!


After all it was only last year when the whole hullaballoo happened about the DHS report that targeted "right-wing extremists" and some other groups as potential terrorists.


So, I ask, Christians who want to deny rights to citizens and to keep even noncitizens from having legal counsel and the right to a trial, what will you do when it is YOU that is taken to a military prison to be held indefinitely without the right to know why you are being held or to have legal counsel or even the chance to defend yourself? How will you feel then? Will you still think that the terrorists are our greatest enemy? Will you still believe that non-citizens should not have Miranda rights when your citizenship is stripped from you because you are merely suspected of terrorist activity?

Christians who lament about how they are 'persecuted' here in America are embracing legislation that will make real persecution so very easy!! I know very few Christians who oppose the PATRIOT Act, and most Christians I know are all for not giving Miranda rights to those who are not citizens and/or are suspected of terrorism. (And, yep, I'm making a big deal about the term 'suspected'. A person is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around). In their zeal for a 'righteous government' and safety from terrorism Christians have lost sight of what America was really all about, freedom from tyranny.

When we crave 'safety' more than our liberty the terrorists win. And so I suppose they have won...

Essential Liberty

“Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” Benjamin Franklin

So. The wonderful Congressman from Connecticut, Joe Lieberman, has introduced the "Terrorism Expatriation Act". This act modifies another passed years ago while McCarthyism was still alive and well.

The text of the original is:

§ 1481. Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen; voluntary action; burden of proof; presumptions

(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality—

(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or

(2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or

(3) entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state if

(A) such armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the United States, or

(B) such persons serve as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer; or

(4)

(A) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years if he has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state; or

(B) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years for which office, post, or employment an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance is required; or

(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state, in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State; or

(6) making in the United States a formal written renunciation of nationality in such form as may be prescribed by, and before such officer as may be designated by, the Attorney General, whenever the United States shall be in a state of war and the Attorney General shall approve such renunciation as not contrary to the interests of national defense; or

(7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384 of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction.

(b) Whenever the loss of United States nationality is put in issue in any action or proceeding commenced on or after September 26, 1961 under, or by virtue of, the provisions of this chapter or any other Act, the burden shall be upon the person or party claiming that such loss occurred, to establish such claim by a preponderance of the evidence. Any person who commits or performs, or who has committed or performed, any act of expatriation under the provisions of this chapter or any other Act shall be presumed to have done so voluntarily, but such presumption may be rebutted upon a showing, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the act or acts committed or performed were not done voluntarily.

Okay. So I can see the expatriation of those described in section 1-6. Those have renounced their citizenship by swearing allegiance to another state. But section 7 I have a problem with. Those sections of the US code that it modifies give stipulations on how long someone can be incarcerated and say nothing of expatriating them.

Now Lieberman's proposal would expand that to include terrorists, domestic ones. The biggest problem with that is that if we expatriate citizens what becomes of them once they are released from jail? If they have no citizenship here or in another country what are they to do? Can they be re-naturalized? Will they be deported? and if so to where?

I see this as an open door to stifle dissent and to criminalize and strip of their rights American citizens at the whim of the state. The burden of proving, or rather disproving, the state's accusations lies with the one accused. That is not right! In this country we are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around!

This quote sums up my fears on that point, "While the burden would be on the State Department and you would have access to court review, the agency process could make it difficult to contest such findings -- particularly with the use of secret evidence (and barring the use of evidence by the defendant on national security grounds)," [Jonathan] Turley wrote on his blog."

Of course I saw this one coming. All the debate about whether or not to 'mirandize' those suspected of terrorism and whether non-citizens deserve those rights. I believe we must extend the rights of our legal system to include those that are terror suspects. We must prove that they are what the authorities say they are before we incarcerate them. If they are not part of an organized military, that belonging to a sovereign state, then we must treat them as individuals guilty of a crime. As individuals they must be proven guilty, not proven innocent. We cannot abandon justice to procure some illusion of safety.